Why should you complain about a driving instructor?
Why should you complain to the DSA?
Answer: Because this is the ONLY way you have of contributing to a bad driving instructor being taken off the road. You won't get your money back necessarily but if you don't complain to an external authority then no-one will know and they get to continue to rip other people off. Its in the company's interest to keep complaints quiet, but by all means complain to them too in case they are a good company (unlike Nippers).
If all the people who had shit experiences with Steve Eggleton had complained then the DSA would have had to take action, but just one complaint doesnt do it, there needs to be more. So this man gets to continue giving his terrible driving lessons in a town that he doesnt really know (and wasnt bothered about knowing). So he got another £1000. Think of that. The terrible driving instructor profited from the silence of all those who had terrible experiences, who wrote it on their to-do list and forgot or who were too frightened to do it for whatever reason (believe me I was terrified too, Steve is scary and knew where I lived).
The DSA are useless at this, their methods of checking the quality and safety of driving instructors are poor, their check test is laughable when the instructor gets to choose, prep and prime the test subject/learner driver. Who might even be an experienced driver with many years experience.
And the non-nice part of me, the part that is hidden and hurting from all the damage Steve did, likes the idea of the extra effort and stress I put him through dealing with the DSA. I'd like to think he took it as a wakeup call but somehow I doubt that.
Anyway, mean bit over, here is a breakdown of what happened when I complained (you can see the email and replies below in previous posts).
1.Verbal Complaint to Nippers (fobbed off twice)
2. Emailed complaint to the DSA (told they wouldn't take it further unless I let Steve have the right of reply. I emailed back to agree)
3. Written complaint to Nippers (totally ignored, nice company eh? Really care about their customer's distress)
4. Reply from DSA stating Steve is a big fat liar and they believe him and are unconcerned about any possible danger he might present (ok, paraphrasing and reading between the lines).
In this business it is your word against the driving instructor and they are ALWAYS going to believe the driving instructor as it is their livelihood on the line. But they cannot ignore many many complaints as easily as a lone one (even though I know I am not alone, I cannot prove it). So the only power we have is in numbers, complain, complain even though its frightening and time consuming, this is one of the few times when a complaint REALLY makes a difference to the way things are run. Be honest, be fair but fuck it, COMPLAIN.
Lets get those terrible driving instructors off the roads, lets make sure that all driving instructors are like Pam Sinclair rather than Steve Eggleton.
Saturday, 19 October 2013
Thursday, 10 October 2013
Nippers Terms and Conditions
I was going through all my Firefox bookmarks in an attempt to get slightly more organised when I found the link to Nippers terms and conditions. I hadn't seen them for a good few months and I suspect a lot of people book with big companies without reading their Terms and Conditions, so its worth going through them.
Remember if you sign up for an intensive course you are handing over a LOT of money at once, not £20 for each lesson. If something goes wrong and you refer to the terms and conditions you will see that there is pretty much NO chance of getting Nippers to refund anything, even if they have provided a terrible instructor. They wash their hands of you, it is not their responsibility, you have to discuss it with the individual instructor and try and persuade them to give you some money back. Otherwise there are no other routes to get money back except for Small Claims Court and all the hassle and expense that entails. So don't book a big company thinking that your money is protected and you have some fallback. You don't, you really really don't. They couldnt care less.
Nippers Terms and Conditions are here:
http://www.nipperssom.com/terms-and-conditions/
Lets go through the important ones:
1. Nipper's School of Motoring only use CRB checked, fully qualified, Driving Standards Agency (DSA) approved driving instructors.
-Sounds good doesn't it. But you can see from my dealings with the DSA and some revelations about the check test that this means very little and tells you nothing about the quality of the instructor provided. Steve did his check test with a carefully selected pupil (who could already have been a driver for a long time according to the lack of regulations), pulled out all the stops, rather than sitting and chatting rubbish for two hours and passed. There are several levels of pass as well, levels 4, 5 and 6. Worth finding out what level your instructor is at even if the test is a load of rubbish.
4. All persons booked onto ANY course must reach the standard expected from the DSA before they will be allowed the use of the tuition vehicle for the practical test. The instructor will make the decision as to whether or not this standard has been achieved at the end of the course. Their decision must be taken as final.
-Sorry, I'm sniggering here. Five tests it took me due to the yawning gaps in my knowledge and skill. And as you can see from my previous posts, I was dangerous. Really dangerous. So dangerous I was having nightmares for weeks about taking my kids out. But hey, why not take the test (s) anyway, good experience, right? Oh wait......
5.It is not Nipper's School of Motoring's policy, nor that of the DSA to allow pupils to take their driving test for the "experience".
-Oh.
Now 12 and 13 are interesting. I believe they are new additions. I find myself unable to copy and paste from the site itself so I have typed all of these out from the site. I have corrected all the spelling/capitalisation mistakes.
12.Your instructor is a self-employed franchisee ("Your Instructor") of Nipper's School of Motoring. Nipper's School of Motoring acts as a agent for your instructor in receiving your payments for driving lessons other than payments made directly by you to your instructor. The contract for driving lessons is solely between ("You") and your instructor.
13.If any complaints arise these should in the first instance be discussed with your instructor, then in writing to Nipper's School of Motoring.
So there we have it. Nipper's merely provide you with the name of an instructor, if anything goes wrong or you get an incompetent one you have no fallback, even if they have recommended them. You must discuss it with your unpleasant driving instructor, who knows where you live and has no reason to even listen to your complaints. And if you complain to Nippers you will get fobbed off. Drawback number 561 of using an intensive course, once they have your money, thats it, you wont get it back. There is no where to go for complaint resolution or any form of restitution and in this business all the power is behind the instructor. You should still complain though, the more complaints, the more indication that there is something wrong. I know a lot of people feel scared/indimidated etc about doing this, but if the people who had experienced this before had done what I am doing, I never would have wasted my time or money on Nippers or Steve Eggleton.
If I was learning to drive again I would have gone with a local independent who had been recommended to me (Pam Sinclair, or Ellis ABC) and I would have paid for several two hour lessons a day if necessary, but on my timetable and paying for each one at the time. I would have spent less because I would actually have had a competent instructor who was interested and committed in teaching me to drive SAFELY and COMPETENTLY, rather than chatting. If there had been a problem I would just have cancelled my lessons within 24/48 hours and walked away, rather than being committed. I also would have read everything possible about good driving instructors, which would have helped me realise how crap Steve was much sooner.
With an intensive course if you have an issue with the instructor the short time scale means it is very hard to change instructor and you run the risk of losing the money you have paid out in test fees. There is no benefit to going with one of these companies, no extra protection. In fact you just have to deal with two sets of incompetent arseholes, rather than just the one.
Nippers final Term/Condition is amusing:
14.Nipper's School of Motoring reserve the right to alter these terms and conditions as necessary.
So they could theoretically change the boundaries on you, mid way through the course. So rule number 1, take a copy of the terms and conditions, screen shot, photograph, insist on a print copy from Nippers if necessary, but make sure you have a copy of the Terms and Conditions YOU signed up to. Its a lot of money.....
Remember if you sign up for an intensive course you are handing over a LOT of money at once, not £20 for each lesson. If something goes wrong and you refer to the terms and conditions you will see that there is pretty much NO chance of getting Nippers to refund anything, even if they have provided a terrible instructor. They wash their hands of you, it is not their responsibility, you have to discuss it with the individual instructor and try and persuade them to give you some money back. Otherwise there are no other routes to get money back except for Small Claims Court and all the hassle and expense that entails. So don't book a big company thinking that your money is protected and you have some fallback. You don't, you really really don't. They couldnt care less.
Nippers Terms and Conditions are here:
http://www.nipperssom.com/terms-and-conditions/
Lets go through the important ones:
1. Nipper's School of Motoring only use CRB checked, fully qualified, Driving Standards Agency (DSA) approved driving instructors.
-Sounds good doesn't it. But you can see from my dealings with the DSA and some revelations about the check test that this means very little and tells you nothing about the quality of the instructor provided. Steve did his check test with a carefully selected pupil (who could already have been a driver for a long time according to the lack of regulations), pulled out all the stops, rather than sitting and chatting rubbish for two hours and passed. There are several levels of pass as well, levels 4, 5 and 6. Worth finding out what level your instructor is at even if the test is a load of rubbish.
4. All persons booked onto ANY course must reach the standard expected from the DSA before they will be allowed the use of the tuition vehicle for the practical test. The instructor will make the decision as to whether or not this standard has been achieved at the end of the course. Their decision must be taken as final.
-Sorry, I'm sniggering here. Five tests it took me due to the yawning gaps in my knowledge and skill. And as you can see from my previous posts, I was dangerous. Really dangerous. So dangerous I was having nightmares for weeks about taking my kids out. But hey, why not take the test (s) anyway, good experience, right? Oh wait......
5.It is not Nipper's School of Motoring's policy, nor that of the DSA to allow pupils to take their driving test for the "experience".
-Oh.
Now 12 and 13 are interesting. I believe they are new additions. I find myself unable to copy and paste from the site itself so I have typed all of these out from the site. I have corrected all the spelling/capitalisation mistakes.
12.Your instructor is a self-employed franchisee ("Your Instructor") of Nipper's School of Motoring. Nipper's School of Motoring acts as a agent for your instructor in receiving your payments for driving lessons other than payments made directly by you to your instructor. The contract for driving lessons is solely between ("You") and your instructor.
13.If any complaints arise these should in the first instance be discussed with your instructor, then in writing to Nipper's School of Motoring.
So there we have it. Nipper's merely provide you with the name of an instructor, if anything goes wrong or you get an incompetent one you have no fallback, even if they have recommended them. You must discuss it with your unpleasant driving instructor, who knows where you live and has no reason to even listen to your complaints. And if you complain to Nippers you will get fobbed off. Drawback number 561 of using an intensive course, once they have your money, thats it, you wont get it back. There is no where to go for complaint resolution or any form of restitution and in this business all the power is behind the instructor. You should still complain though, the more complaints, the more indication that there is something wrong. I know a lot of people feel scared/indimidated etc about doing this, but if the people who had experienced this before had done what I am doing, I never would have wasted my time or money on Nippers or Steve Eggleton.
If I was learning to drive again I would have gone with a local independent who had been recommended to me (Pam Sinclair, or Ellis ABC) and I would have paid for several two hour lessons a day if necessary, but on my timetable and paying for each one at the time. I would have spent less because I would actually have had a competent instructor who was interested and committed in teaching me to drive SAFELY and COMPETENTLY, rather than chatting. If there had been a problem I would just have cancelled my lessons within 24/48 hours and walked away, rather than being committed. I also would have read everything possible about good driving instructors, which would have helped me realise how crap Steve was much sooner.
With an intensive course if you have an issue with the instructor the short time scale means it is very hard to change instructor and you run the risk of losing the money you have paid out in test fees. There is no benefit to going with one of these companies, no extra protection. In fact you just have to deal with two sets of incompetent arseholes, rather than just the one.
Nippers final Term/Condition is amusing:
14.Nipper's School of Motoring reserve the right to alter these terms and conditions as necessary.
So they could theoretically change the boundaries on you, mid way through the course. So rule number 1, take a copy of the terms and conditions, screen shot, photograph, insist on a print copy from Nippers if necessary, but make sure you have a copy of the Terms and Conditions YOU signed up to. Its a lot of money.....
Friday, 4 October 2013
Four hundred visits
Four hundred visits to the blog, hello to you all!
I've also had a response from my Dooyoo review (written in August) from someone who had searched the site for a review on Nippers. I got a message through the site system asking me for recommendations ( I offered this at the end of the review) and sent her to the two driving instructors in Colchester that I know are good- Pam Sinclair and Ellis ABC. So that's another person discouraged from Nippers.
Plus one of my Facebook friends in Colchester just had her daughter pass her driving theory test. I sent her a public message just reminding her of the nightmare I had with Nippers. Turns out she has been passing the word around too for me and with three teenage and young adult children she is probably having more of an effect that I am.
I've also had a response from my Dooyoo review (written in August) from someone who had searched the site for a review on Nippers. I got a message through the site system asking me for recommendations ( I offered this at the end of the review) and sent her to the two driving instructors in Colchester that I know are good- Pam Sinclair and Ellis ABC. So that's another person discouraged from Nippers.
Plus one of my Facebook friends in Colchester just had her daughter pass her driving theory test. I sent her a public message just reminding her of the nightmare I had with Nippers. Turns out she has been passing the word around too for me and with three teenage and young adult children she is probably having more of an effect that I am.
Thursday, 26 September 2013
Three hundred visits
Three hundred visits so far to this blog (and they aren't all me as I have it set not to count my visits).
Not bad.
Lots of people have asked me about learning to drive (one child at school, one child at playgroups and nursery) and I have been honest each time. I have nothing good to
They say that no one remembers a good review, only the bad. Well there are now a lot of bad ones out there about Nippers School of Motoring and Steve Eggleton. Plus I am active on local Facebook groups and student websites (I'm a student too) just happily sharing my experiences if the subject comes up, not shouting about it, just mentioning it, often by private message. Oh and Mumsnet of course.
So far I have definitely discouraged three people from taking intensive courses with Nippers (that I know) that's £2400 minimum. I have a long memory, won't be long before my daughter and her friends are thinking about driving lessons, older siblings of her friends are even closer to that point.
People remember bad experiences, Nippers and when a business relies on word of mouth, its a mistake to provide a poor service and then terrible customer service.
And the blog? It's staying up and active. It's still there if you google all sorts of things, especially things like Steve Eggleton driving instructor, Steve Eggleton Nippers etc.
I have dabbled with taking this further, I have the small claims court papers ready to fill out but I have a little bit of time still to make that decision. Steve would lie, his job is on the line if he tells the truth, but as time passes I am beginning to see what a sad little man he is. At the end of the day he has to live with himself and I get to be grateful everyday that my concentration didn't slip on that London trip and I am still here and in one piece. And anger and shock about the fact that I almost died of course, that's always a bit of a shock to the system ( for anyone who can't be bothered to read the whole thing, Steve got me to drive for six hours around London with no food, drink or rest breaks, with mirrors set wrongly, five days after getting into the drivers seat for the first time).
Not bad.
Lots of people have asked me about learning to drive (one child at school, one child at playgroups and nursery) and I have been honest each time. I have nothing good to
They say that no one remembers a good review, only the bad. Well there are now a lot of bad ones out there about Nippers School of Motoring and Steve Eggleton. Plus I am active on local Facebook groups and student websites (I'm a student too) just happily sharing my experiences if the subject comes up, not shouting about it, just mentioning it, often by private message. Oh and Mumsnet of course.
So far I have definitely discouraged three people from taking intensive courses with Nippers (that I know) that's £2400 minimum. I have a long memory, won't be long before my daughter and her friends are thinking about driving lessons, older siblings of her friends are even closer to that point.
People remember bad experiences, Nippers and when a business relies on word of mouth, its a mistake to provide a poor service and then terrible customer service.
And the blog? It's staying up and active. It's still there if you google all sorts of things, especially things like Steve Eggleton driving instructor, Steve Eggleton Nippers etc.
I have dabbled with taking this further, I have the small claims court papers ready to fill out but I have a little bit of time still to make that decision. Steve would lie, his job is on the line if he tells the truth, but as time passes I am beginning to see what a sad little man he is. At the end of the day he has to live with himself and I get to be grateful everyday that my concentration didn't slip on that London trip and I am still here and in one piece. And anger and shock about the fact that I almost died of course, that's always a bit of a shock to the system ( for anyone who can't be bothered to read the whole thing, Steve got me to drive for six hours around London with no food, drink or rest breaks, with mirrors set wrongly, five days after getting into the drivers seat for the first time).
Friday, 20 September 2013
DSA complaint response
No response from the letter to Nippers, unsurprisingly I suppose. Why would they care about customer service or the well being of customers, they employ Steve after all.
I usually try to be balanced and open minded when thinking about this whole business as I am dealing with people who don't think like normal, well balanced individuals and getting mad does nothing but raise the blood pressure.
But now I am mad, really really cross.
I got a response to my DSA email, well over four weeks since I last heard from them.
Now the normal, well balanced part of me is thinking, well, what did you expect, they don't want to admit to administering a check test to a dangerously lazy incompetent that was so easy that it didn't pick up on any of his lack of skills, common sense and decency. The customer is always wrong in their case.
Also I didn't expect really that Steve would tell the truth, its his job and his licence on the line, so he wasn't going to say 'yes, I am a shit driving instructor, please take my license away', but I am still shocked that he could lie so much ( and I am trying not to think about what he might have said about me, but as I am not allowed to know, I will just have to leave it to my imagination).
So, people of Essex, beware of any car with the Nippers logo, it could carry a fat, bald, short man who is completely unable to teach the basics and is a wanker to boot.
Anyway, here is the reply from the DSA:
Katie Mountain
I usually try to be balanced and open minded when thinking about this whole business as I am dealing with people who don't think like normal, well balanced individuals and getting mad does nothing but raise the blood pressure.
But now I am mad, really really cross.
I got a response to my DSA email, well over four weeks since I last heard from them.
Now the normal, well balanced part of me is thinking, well, what did you expect, they don't want to admit to administering a check test to a dangerously lazy incompetent that was so easy that it didn't pick up on any of his lack of skills, common sense and decency. The customer is always wrong in their case.
Also I didn't expect really that Steve would tell the truth, its his job and his licence on the line, so he wasn't going to say 'yes, I am a shit driving instructor, please take my license away', but I am still shocked that he could lie so much ( and I am trying not to think about what he might have said about me, but as I am not allowed to know, I will just have to leave it to my imagination).
So, people of Essex, beware of any car with the Nippers logo, it could carry a fat, bald, short man who is completely unable to teach the basics and is a wanker to boot.
Anyway, here is the reply from the DSA:
Driving Standards Agency
| ||
(Sarah Drew)
by email: {redacted}
|
20 September 2013
our ref: 1309/00373
Dear (Mrs Drew)
Further to our email of 12 August we have now received comments from Steve Eggleton in response to your complaint.
It is difficult to reconcile such differing viewpoints and I am afraid that under the circumstances we cannot take your complaint further.
As mentioned previously in our email of 12 August, in line with our standard practice we will keep all correspondence relating to your complaint on file for two years and add a record of this complaint against Mr Eggleton on the Register.
Yours sincerely
Corporate Correspondence
Customer Operations
For information about our complaints procedure, please click here
Tuesday, 10 September 2013
A little extra bad advice
Driving around today I remembered another thing I was told to do by Steve.
To drive as close to the central line of the road as I could.
My second instructor spent a lot of each lesson telling me to move close to the pavement as I had more than a metre of space between me and the side of the road. Fair enough on country roads with overgrown bushes or with cyclists but anywhere else it puts you at a much higher risk of a head on collision with oncoming traffic.
And with cyclists I had to go right onto the other side of the road with Steve - not just straddle the central line but right over the opposite side of the road, which obviously is terrifying for a learner and everyone else on the road.
I had forgotten to mention that he tapped my wrist a few times when I did something wrong.
All things that I wish I had mentioned in the complaint and to the DSA.
To drive as close to the central line of the road as I could.
My second instructor spent a lot of each lesson telling me to move close to the pavement as I had more than a metre of space between me and the side of the road. Fair enough on country roads with overgrown bushes or with cyclists but anywhere else it puts you at a much higher risk of a head on collision with oncoming traffic.
And with cyclists I had to go right onto the other side of the road with Steve - not just straddle the central line but right over the opposite side of the road, which obviously is terrifying for a learner and everyone else on the road.
I had forgotten to mention that he tapped my wrist a few times when I did something wrong.
All things that I wish I had mentioned in the complaint and to the DSA.
No response yet
Title says it all. Not heard anything back from Nippers School of Motoring or Steve Eggleton yet.
Perhaps they are still reading the complaint letter as it was four pages long in the end!
If anyone has found this blog as they have him as an instructor, bad luck, see if you can change. If you want the full story, start with part one and work through, I'm happy to answer any questions.
I had a nightmare last night that I had passed my first driving test. I was really close to passing as a number of lucky things happened - I got the kind examiner in a good mood, almost empty roads, the manoevre I was best at on an empty street and the examiner ignored many of the little mistakes that I made that I got minor faults for on later tests. However I was in no way a safe and competent driver as I couldn't
- drive and read road signs (my independent drive on this test was just 'first right, then left, then third exit at the roundabout, no sign reading as on later tests).
-meet other cars
-pull in and move off safely on a road with traffic
-deal with double roundabouts
-use my mirrors safely when manoevring, especially around roundabouts.
-drive at a speed commensurate with the road conditions
-work out what speed I should be doing
-hazard spot competently
-drive without getting flustered and overwhelmed
-deal with traffic lights at junctions eg filter arrows, when I had to stop and wait for opposing traffic. On several occasions when turning right and catching sight of the red light for the traffic behind me, I slammed on my brakes.
-couldn't parallel park or bay park
-didn't know all the things to look out for when reversing around a corner and what to do if I was obstructing traffic.
-couldn't hill start
-couldn't find a comfortable driving position
-couldn't use lights, wipers or indicators properly
-Couldnt deal with any roundabouts that were unusual or didn't fit an exact pattern
-was still coming to a complete stop at EVERY junction, crossroads and roundabout before looking at the the oncoming traffic to see if it was safe to go. Fine when you are in a marked car as a learner, but as a new driver you run the risk of being shunted from behind as the drivers behind are also watching the traffic and if the road is empty they will expect you to react faster and move faster.
Steve was happy to let me potentially pass the test with all those dangerous gaps in my knowledge. My second instructor was shocked as she knew ( as did he) that I have young children and this would have put them at serious risk.
The cynical side of me noticed that the examiner and Steve knew each other and had worked together in the past. But I wouldn't like to say anything more about that as it is a supposition and unfair to both parties (even incompetent Steve) to say more than that.
Perhaps they are still reading the complaint letter as it was four pages long in the end!
If anyone has found this blog as they have him as an instructor, bad luck, see if you can change. If you want the full story, start with part one and work through, I'm happy to answer any questions.
I had a nightmare last night that I had passed my first driving test. I was really close to passing as a number of lucky things happened - I got the kind examiner in a good mood, almost empty roads, the manoevre I was best at on an empty street and the examiner ignored many of the little mistakes that I made that I got minor faults for on later tests. However I was in no way a safe and competent driver as I couldn't
- drive and read road signs (my independent drive on this test was just 'first right, then left, then third exit at the roundabout, no sign reading as on later tests).
-meet other cars
-pull in and move off safely on a road with traffic
-deal with double roundabouts
-use my mirrors safely when manoevring, especially around roundabouts.
-drive at a speed commensurate with the road conditions
-work out what speed I should be doing
-hazard spot competently
-drive without getting flustered and overwhelmed
-deal with traffic lights at junctions eg filter arrows, when I had to stop and wait for opposing traffic. On several occasions when turning right and catching sight of the red light for the traffic behind me, I slammed on my brakes.
-couldn't parallel park or bay park
-didn't know all the things to look out for when reversing around a corner and what to do if I was obstructing traffic.
-couldn't hill start
-couldn't find a comfortable driving position
-couldn't use lights, wipers or indicators properly
-Couldnt deal with any roundabouts that were unusual or didn't fit an exact pattern
-was still coming to a complete stop at EVERY junction, crossroads and roundabout before looking at the the oncoming traffic to see if it was safe to go. Fine when you are in a marked car as a learner, but as a new driver you run the risk of being shunted from behind as the drivers behind are also watching the traffic and if the road is empty they will expect you to react faster and move faster.
Steve was happy to let me potentially pass the test with all those dangerous gaps in my knowledge. My second instructor was shocked as she knew ( as did he) that I have young children and this would have put them at serious risk.
The cynical side of me noticed that the examiner and Steve knew each other and had worked together in the past. But I wouldn't like to say anything more about that as it is a supposition and unfair to both parties (even incompetent Steve) to say more than that.
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